(Mira Kirshenbaum's 3rd visit to Power Surge)

Dearest:  My guest tonight is MIRA KIRSHENBAUM, for nearly three decades a Psychotherapist, 
Researcher and Best selling author. Mira is an individual and family psychotherapist and 
is Clinical Director of the Chestnut Hill Institute in Boston.

Mira has been featured on radio and TV shows as author and guest expert, such as the Today 
Show, Oprah, Sally Jessy Raphael, Geraldo, Maury Povich, Ricki Lake and Hard Copy. Articles 
and reviews about her work have appeared in national and international publications. Mira 
has given lectures and workshops at Harvard University and Harvard Medical School.

The author of five best-selling books, including, "Women And Love", "Too Good To Leave,
Too Bad To Stay", "The Gift Of A Year" and her newest, the subject of tonight's discussion, 
"The Emotional Energy Factor: The Secrets High-Energy People Use to Beat Emotional Fatigue". 

Needless to say, Mira, it's a pleasure to welcome you back to Power Surge :) 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  I'm so happy to be with you again. 


Dearest:  And I'm happy to have you back. Mira, I think the best
place to begin is with a definition of emotional energy and emotional 
fatigue. Thanks. 
 

Mira Kirshenbaum:  We all know what energy is. It's when you have what it
takes to do what you want to do. Well, emotional energy is when you have what 
it takes in the emotional parts of life, when you have to face frustration 
and the world isn't cooperating with you. 

We all get emotional fatigue from time to time. It's when you keep putting out and don't
get enough back. It's when you're not having enough fun, when you're bored, when you're 
discouraged. Then you start feeling "fed up". That's when emotional fatigue has set in.  


Dearest:  Mira, this may seem like a silly question, but you say "when the world isn't 
cooperating with you" -- but... what about when YOU'RE not cooperating with the world?  


Mira Kirshenbaum:  We often get in our own way. There's not always a good fit between what 
we want and what the world wants. 

Sometimes we need emotional energy to be able to cooperate with the world. 
Sometimes we need emotional energy to say screw it to the world, I need to do this for me.  


Dearest:  Would you say emotional energy is, or starts with, a mind-set? 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  Emotional energy starts with the decision to take care of your emotional 
energy the way you make a decision to take care of your physical energy by getting enough 
sleep and eating healthy food. 

The good news is that there are plenty of things you can do to give yourself more emotional 
energy.  


Mombear:  I think emotional energy is much like physical energy. There is a limit to how 
much you have. Once you've spent it all you have to regroup sort of and recharge your 
emotional batteries. Is there a simple way to do that? 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  Emotional energy's better than physical energy. As we get older physical 
energy inevitably runs down. But the more you learn about how to give yourself emotional 
energy, the more of it you can have. 

But yes, you have to keep doing things to recharge your emotional batteries. The simplest 
way is to give yourself the one thing you need most. 

There are 25 emotional energy boosters in THE EMOTIONAL ENERGY FACTOR. And there are 
diagnostic questions that will tell you which ones you need to focus on. 


Dearest:  As a group for women in menopause, we know how emotionally AND energy taxing this 
transition of life can be. While women are going through these major changes, is it possible 
to "repossess" the high energy we had before while going through menopause?  


Mira Kirshenbaum:  I've been through menopause, and then I got hit bad with hypothyroidism. 
And I'm here to tell you that if you just do the things that work, you can maintain an 
energy high throughout the worst of menopause. 

And I'm not talking about run around like a nut kind of energy. 

I'm talking about feeling clear and happy and centered and hopeful within yourself kind of energy. 


Chris2you:  I try to eat right, I exercises somewhat, I work. How do you control, without 
taking meds to keep even emotionally? I have two older sisters that are on anti-depressants. 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  Why not assume that you're emotionally malnourished? Now all you have
to do is figure out exactly where and how you're malnourished emotionally and then give 
yourself what you need. 

90% of what people call depression is emotional malnourish. For example, maybe you're 
putting too much energy into living up to other people's expectations. 


Chris2you:  I just don't want to go that route, so try hard to stay emotionally fit :)
That I do. 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  That will make anybody malnourished.  What route? 


Chris2you:  Taking meds, like older sisters, but we are different.  


Mira Kirshenbaum:  Yeah, exactly. 


Dearest:  I'm missing something. This sounds too easy - sensible, yes, but there are so
many people suffering from anxiety, depression, and a host of health and mental health 
issues.


Mira Kirshenbaum:  100 years ago and even today in many parts of the world people are 
suffering from all kinds of physical health issues because they're missing simple nutrients 
in their diet. 

It's no different in the emotional realm. Who knows how well we could do mentally and 
emotionally if we had all the ingredients for emotional energy going for us. But you have
to keep putting them into your life. 


Marlo:  Isn't it true that when you are near people who have no emotional energy, and are 
depressed it rubs off on you? In this sense you have to be strong and fight it.  Right?


Mira Kirshenbaum:  You are so right Marlo about the effect some people have on us. But 
fight? I don't think so. Fight what? Fight how? 


Marlo:  Especially the ones that always talk about sickness. 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  I'm sorry to say this, but the best thing we can do with people who drain 
our emotional energy is make distance from them as best we can.


Dearest:  Yes, I call them toxic people.  They drain us. But, what if we have
situations it's not so easy to distance ourselves from -- families.  


Mira Kirshenbaum:  Exactly. Every minute you spend with a toxic person means an hour you're 
going to have to spend building up your emotional energy. 

Good question. 


Dearest:  And... so many of us are dealing with aging or old parents now. 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  Whenever you're facing special drains on your energy, you have to take 
special measures to give yourself more energy. 

The more you take care of others, the more you have to take care of yourself.  For people 
who take care of others, self care is a duty. And what we now know is that taking care 
of yourself means feeding your emotional energy. Like, for example, making sure you always 
have something new and special to look forward to. 


Pookie:  How can we know the difference between low energy and depression? 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  Real depression is a major illness. It must be diagnosed by a doctor.
But real depression is almost completely incapacitating. 

If you were suffering a major depression, everyone would know it and would be extremely 
alarmed. Just feeling the blues and the blahs, not wanting to get going in the morning, 
feeling bored and stale, not always feeling so happy--all these are signs of low emotional 
energy.  

You need to make changes in your life, not take drugs.


Pookie:  So my circle is closed, because I have depression? 


Dearest:  Mira, aren't we more challenged than ever before what with the state of affairs
of our country, our economy, wondering what's going to happen next? How does one stay upbeat 
during such times? 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  Absolutely. The times we're living through are getting to a lot of 
people. But they hit everyone differently. You have to zero in on exactly where your 
emotional energy is taking a beating. That's how you stay upbeat, by focusing on 
getting what you specifically need. 


HSpec:  What are some examples of "if you just do the things that work..." to improve
one's emotional energy?


Mira Kirshenbaum:  Wow. There are so many. 25. Here's one a random. 

Prayer--I don't want to get into religion, but it turns out that there are ways to pray that 
give you emotional energy.  And there are ways that take emotional energy away from you. 

People who pray by just complaining or asking for things are setting themselves up for 
losing emotional energy. 

People get emotional energy through prayer by trying to have a genuine dialogue with God. 
Asking a question of God and then somehow waiting to feel or sense some kind of answer.
I show you exactly how to do this in the book. And a really good thing to have a dialogue 
with God about is how you can become a better person. 


Vensung:  Does panic disorder figure in here as well? And do you address fear?  What if
the fear isn't specific- like changing the total direction of your life?


Mira Kirshenbaum:  Panic disorder is a special condition that can be treated relatively 
quickly by a competent therapist. 

But fear is very important when it comes to emotional energy, and I have a lot about it in 
the book. 

Most of us are relatively helpless when it comes to dealing with our fears, and that drains 
our emotional energy.  But everything you do to get on top of your fears, one step at a 
time, gives you emotional energy. 

For example, every time you start feeling fear do one simple specific thing to deal with 
that fear. 

Make a phone call. 
Consult an expert. 
Talk to a friend. 

About death... well, we're all going to die. So you die. so what?  You'll probably go to 
heaven --I just have a feeling. 

But even if there's nothing, you won't be around to experience it. What I've just said is 
an example of dealing with a fear by zeroing in on what it is you're really afraid of and 
dealing with it piece by piece and putting it all in perspective. 

 
Dearest:  Mira, we do seem to complicate our lives, don't we? 

  
Mira Kirshenbaum:  We sure do. And every complication is a huge source of emotional fatigue.  
One thing I noticed with people who have a lot of energy--they're streamlined. 


Dearest:  How so? 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  Their lives and their emotions are as uncomplicated as possible. 


RetreadMommy:  As an (ADHD) mom of 2 college seniors and two others under the age of 6,
I am leery of the word energy since I must daily take steps to slow myself down. Would
not emotional energy add physical energy back to me? 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  No. First of all, we're all ADHD these days--running around, too much
to do, driven to distraction. 

It's lack of emotional energy that prevents us from slowing down. Because when you're 
emotionally exhausted you can't face how depleted you feel inside.  The more you're 
nourished emotionally, the more you can slow down. 

Remember, emotional energy means happiness and hope and centeredness more than anything 
else.  It's just that we need those things for doing what we have to do. 


Dearest:  Mira, I bet if we asked the women in this room how many of them felt emotionally 
exhausted, depleted, etc... most would say yes. How many of you DO feel emotionally 
fatigued?  


MaryO:  me 
HSpec:  me 
sooty:  me 
Dearest:  me
Trish:  me 
MidlifeJewell:  me too 
Marlo:  Marlo I do 
RetreadMommy:  me 
peggy:  me 
Di:  I just got divorced and I feel reborn emotionally 
Vensung:  me too 
HSpec:  lol 
Chris2you:  yep 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  this sounds like an opera convention with all the me, me, me's. 


Dearest:  Well, we're part of the "me" generation :) 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  Di, I know where you're coming from. One of the things
that gives people 
emotional energy is making a big decision. 


Dearest:  Maybe that's why there's so much emotional fatigue. 


Marlo:  When I lost both parents last year three months apart, I was emotionally & 
physically drained. I still feel it. 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  Of course.  Loss is terrible for your emotional energy. But there's
a natural healing process with loss. 


Marlo:  That's true. I never thought I would get so strong. 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  If that natural healing process gets blocked, you'll stay exhausted.
I have a chapter in THE EMOTIONAL ENERGY FACTOR that shows you exactly how to let go of 
loss. 


Mary:  Prayers does change things. I write letters to God in good and bad times. He gives
me the energy I need to build up my emotional energy. Journaling, to me, is an excellent 
tool to use. It's a time to relax and collect our thoughts. To slow down.


Pookie:  I have a son who is 24 years old.  One minute he has a lot of energy and the next 
he seems depressed, what could this be? 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  It's being 24 years old. Young people have higher highs and lower lows. 
The real test is where he is in his life. If he's progressing normally, (even if he's no 
world beater), then he's probably fine. 


Dearest:  Mira, you say to have something to always look forward to. I always tell women
in Power Surge one of the best ways to cope with menopause is to "distract" yourself in
any way you can from the uncomfortable feelings. Is this part of positive emotional energy? 

I recommend helping others, taking up new hobbies, etc. 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  These are all good ways to add more emotional energy to your life. 
It's not about distraction. It's about doing something you care about THAT FEEDS YOU.
And you can feed yourself sometimes by helping others and by taking on new challenges. 
Sometimes you just have to spend a little energy and go out there and make something happen--
but if you do you'll get a lot of emotional energy back. 

Whatever you do, do not sit around just feeling your own pain. 

 
Dearest:  By distracting yourself, you can avoid dwelling on the pain. But, let's
go with what you just said.  


Mira Kirshenbaum:  Sure.


Dearest:  I think many people sit around feeling their own pain all the time. 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  Yeah, and it's emotionally exhausting. 
It's like when you have a sore tooth and you keep poking it with your tongue. I think
we keep hoping that we're going to understand something. But it never works that way. 


Dearest:  What do you mean by "..hoping that we're going to understand something?" 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  The solution to pain is fix it or forget it. And you forget it by
moving on and doing things to feed yourself emotionally. 


Dearest:  And not to whine about it. Very interesting. Thanks. 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  We think that by studying our pain we're going to understand something 
about our pain that will make us able to fix it.  But that doesn't work. 


Vensung:  Is there a place to go - a retreat or someplace similar where one can focus
on these issues? Maybe you should start one. 


Dearest:  I'll be the first to sign up :) 


Vensung:  I'd be #2 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  I'm doing a workshop Mother's Day weekend at the Omega Institute in
New York. Sign up! 


Dearest:  It will touch on all these issues? 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  But you've brought up a good point. I think most of the time when we
go on vacation what we're really looking for is a retreat where we can focus on what
we need to rebuild our emotional energy. 


Dearest:  Thanks, Mira.  


Trish:  I feel both emotionally and physically drained caring for my elderly mom, who lives 
about an hr from my home. I do visit and cook for her. How do you deal with guilt? There are 
times I do feel like just staying home and dedicating time to me, but I feel guilty at 
times. I also work full-time and have a family at home. 


Dearest:  Mira, please E.mail me information about the retreat. 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  I must confess that some people have said that reading THE EMOTIONAL 
ENERGY FACTOR is like going on a retreat. 

Trish, about your question. Guilt is an emotional energy killer. There's a chapter on it
in the book. But here's what you can start doing. 

But yourself on trial. Seriously. This terrible thing you've done.  Would any judge find
you guilty? I doubt it. You've got to stop condemning yourself for crimes you haven't 
committed. 


Trish:  You are right.  


Mira Kirshenbaum:  God Himself would not condemn you for taking care of yourself so you
have a little more sweetness to add to your taking care of your mother. 


Dearest:  Mira, is emotional energy tied in with personal strength? 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  It used to be thought it was. But now we know that personal strength 
(whatever that really is) is probably some personality characteristic we can't really 
change. 

Emotional energy is the opposite. Everyone can have us much emotional energy as they need, 
as much as anyone else has. You just have to do what people who have emotional energy do. 


Dearest:  Thanks. 


GreenRose:  Being raised as a Christian, I was taught to always put others first--how to 
change this now. 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  GreenRose, clergy people will tell you about special retreats that are 
filled with emotionally exhausted clergy who are there just because all they've done is
put others first. 

How can a car go without fuel in its tank? How can you give to others unless you've given 
to yourself? Otherwise you'll just become exhausted. 


Dearest:  And, Mira, when you live with emotional exhaustion day after day, it can make you 
very sick. 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  And soon you won't have anything left to give. 

The way it works is this: 

Emotional exhaustion destroys your ability to cope with stress. And stress makes you sick
in all kinds of ways.  So we have to give ourselves emotional energy from prevent the stress 
from getting to us.


IreneCrites:  I'm late so I hope this isn't a redundant question. Can we reach a point of 
emotional exhaustion that can only be healed by some extended "away time" or is it more 
beneficial to get involved in life and move on?  


Mira Kirshenbaum:  This is not about how emotionally exhausted you are but about who you are. 


Dearest:  Please elaborate. 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  Some people because of the way they work or because maybe what's 
exhausted them is an overload from other people do need time away. But other people need 
to get involved in life and move on because they're emotionally exhausted from the ways 
they've failed to give to themselves.


Pookie:  I too feel guilty for not being able to travel and see my mother, is been 12 years 
and I feel I have lost part of me because of this. This keeps me down all the time.


Mira Kirshenbaum:  You're either not seeing your mother because you can't or you won't. 


Pookie:  Can't 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  If it's because you can't, why feel guilty? If you can't, you can't. 
What you need to do is not feel guilty but do some real mourning and put it behind you. This 
will make it possible for you to figure out other ways you can connect with your mother.  


Pookie:  True, thank you. 


Dearest: Mira, do you know what I'm hearing in much of what you're saying? 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  Tell me. 


Dearest:  Pick yourself up... dust yourself off.. and start all over again. 
What you can't change, accept. 
Be your own best friend. 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  You can't drive ahead by looking in the rearview mirror. 
Accept what's real in your life, mourn it if you have to, and then steadfastly face only 
the future. 


Dearest:  Are some people just more prone to being beaten up and defeated by life's events? 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  What we found doing research for THE EMOTIONAL ENERGY FACTOR is that this 
is not true. 

People are beaten up by life because they don't take care of their emotional energy. 
Over and over I saw people who were hit by the worst life has to offer, and I talk about 
some of them in the book, but they're the opposite of defeated just because they keep
doing things to build up their emotional energy. 

And sometimes all that means is putting more "you" in your life. 


Dearest:  Makes wonderful sense. I'm certainly going to try it on for size. 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  You go, girl! 


Athena:  I think I have been doing it for quite some time, what worries me is that maybe
my ambitions are too irrational and I'm going to the other extreme. How do you know when 
you're going too far and it turns again into emotion? 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  I think we set ourselves up for an emotional crash whenever we reach
too far. 

Here's how to live. First, do things that you think you'll have about a 50/50 chance of 
succeeding at. 

Second, do a lot of different things. 

That way you're guaranteed to be successful at something, and you'll take care of your 
emotional energy. 

 
Dearest:  And stop buying into everyone's expectations of you!  There are great suggestions 
in the book. 

Mira, thanks for another great chat. You've provided us with some excellent ideas about our 
"Emotional Energy Factor." I've loved all your books :) I highly recommend Mira 
Kirshenbaum's, "The Emotional Energy Factor". Also, surf over to Mira's new site, 
www.emotionalenergyfactor.com, to read more about her work. 


Mira Kirshenbaum:  I want to thank you all for your kindness and excellent questions.
You guys are the best.



Read Mira Kirshenbaum's first transcript
Read Mira Kirshenbaum's second transcript
Read Mira Kirshenbaum's fourth transcript


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Power Surge
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