(Bronwyn Fox's first visit to Power Surge)

Dearest:   Tonight's guest is BRONWYN FOX, the author of "Power Over Panic: 
Freedom From Panic/Anxiety Related Disorders" and the The 2nd
edition, Power Over Panic, plus the wonderful audio cassette, 
Anxiety Panic: Taking Back the Power

Bronwyn was housebound with panic disorder/agoraphobia for over two years until 
the discovery of Mindfulness Meditation helped her gain control over her fears. 
She has been working in the area of Anxiety Disorders since. Bronwyn co-founded 
Australia's Panic Anxiety Disorder Association (PADA) in 1987, has become well 
known. Bronwyn's Panic Anxiety Management Workshop is in every capital city in 
Australia and she also does workshops on her Web site, The Panic Anxiety Hub. 
Her Workshop has also been assessed by a leading anxiety disorder specialist and 
researcher as being 85% effective for people who experience an Anxiety 
Disorder.

Welcome to Power Surge, Bronwyn. Why is Agoraphobia more common in women than in 
men and isn't it often the result of a traumatic event in one's life? 


Bronwyn Fox:   Hello, Dearest and everyone. I often wonder about agoraphobia 
in men.  I think the full extent is hidden in the male population. It can often be 
hiding behind alcohol problems.


Dearest:   Perhaps it's also be because men don't talk about their problems as 
readily as women?


Bronwyn Fox:   Yes. I think this is part of the reason, but it also has to do 
with the male perception of who they think they should be.  As you said the 
disorders can begin with a traumatic event and many men, and women, feel as if 
they should be able to handle anything!  And this can trigger any genetic 
contribution to panic disorder.


Dearest:   I was thinking about the irony in treating an Agoraphobic because 
often the Agoraphobic is unable to leave home. I would imagine many Agoraphobics 
are receiving no treatment if they're unable to seek the services of a 
psychotherapist in his/her office. Your thoughts?


Bronwyn Fox:   Yes, they do, but for men to admit they have an anxiety disorder 
is extremely difficult because of the perception of the word "man".  It can be 
extremely difficult for people to access services if they are housebound. We are 
still trying to have services here in Australia increased for people who are 
housebound. Some therapists will do home visits but not many. 


Dearest:   In those cases, I would imagine your online Panic/Anxiety Management 
Programs could be most helpful -- for those unable to leave home.


Bronwyn Fox:   Yes, I am extremely happy to be able to offer these services.  It 
opens up a new dimension for people who are unable to leave home.


Sasse:   What is the origin of this disorder?  


Bronwyn Fox:   I assume you are speaking of Panic Disorder so I will base my 
answer on this. There is a genetic contribution to this disorder and a major 
life stress, a build up of stresses, illness, menopause can trigger the 
predisposition.


Dearest:   Your profile says you overcame panic disorder with Mindfulness 
Meditation. I first  discovered MM when I read Jon Kabat-Zinn's books and tapes. 
Can you explain to those who don't know what Mindfulness Meditation is and how 
did it help you to overcome agoraphobia/panic disorder? 


Bronwyn Fox:   I began to use meditation to help me relax and I began to use it 
more as an escape from my own panic disorder agoraphobia.  What I did not 
realise was that meditation is the oldest cognitive technique in the world.  
Rather than escaping it taught me how much of my distress was being created by 
the way I was thinking.  It taught me the intimate connection between my 
thoughts and many of my symptoms, and from this I learnt how to recover.  That 
was in the 1980's and I have not looked back. 


Dearest:   Prior to discovering meditation, was there ever a time you were using 
medication / tranquilizers to get you through the Agoraphobia?


Bronwyn Fox:   Yes, I was using valium and when I withdrew from them the 
withdrawal was extremely difficult but I used mindfulness to help me get through 
this stage and I have never needed medication again.  If I become anxious I 
listen to what it is teaching me.  If I have a panic attack I can now control 
them to the point where they are over in 30 seconds not 60 - 90 minutes as was 
the case with my PD.   And I may only have one or two attacks a year now when I 
am stressed. 


Dearest:   My last question before we get back to the queue: I've never heard so 
much about panic attacks as since I created Power Surge, yet when I've 
approached many psychologist and psychiatrist guest experts about an association 
between hormone imbalances and panic attacks, I've gotten the typical, "panic 
attacks aren't caused by a woman's changes." Why does there seem to be so much 
"denial" on the part of the medical profession when it comes to women, emotional 
problems and the association with their physical condition?


Bronwyn Fox:   I think it is because there is not enough research as yet. I did 
read a a couple of years ago that the hormonal link will not be established for 
at least 10 years!


Bronwyn Fox:   It can be very difficult for women as we all know to get the full 
understanding of our doctor. 


Dearest:   Thank you, Bronwyn. TSMedley, go ahead.


TSMedley:   Do you think that a person can get completely over (recover from) 
panic disorder?


Bronwyn Fox:   I and so many others have, but I base recovery on the loss of 
fear of our experience. As I said previously, I will have one or two attacks a 
year, but they only  happen when I am very tired or very stressed  because I am 
not frightened of them anymore they only last 30 seconds and I am not anxious 
about them and because there is no fear it is over before it starts.


Dearest:   Thanks, Bronwyn. Boost, go ahead, please.


Boost:   Can a physical condition cause a panic attack like thyroid problem?


Bronwyn Fox:   Yes, this is why it is so important that we don't self diagnose 
because panic attacks can mimic a number of physical conditions and /or we can 
have panic attacks as a result of being ill. 


Sasse:   The stigma that goes with this condition is terrible; I'm actually 
lonely.  


Bronwyn Fox:   Yes, the stigma can be very difficult, but what we don't realise 
is that we actually help to perpetuate the stigma because we feel so ashamed and 
yet we have nothing to be ashamed of. Part of our recovery is coming to accept 
that we are not weak people, in fact we are very strong and we need to learn to 
accept that Anxiety disorders are the most common mental health problem in both 
the USA and Australia 10% of the population has an AD. 


Dearest:   Irene, go ahead, please.  Bronwyn, you're doing great :)


Bronwyn Fox:   Thank you !


Irene:   When you experience your occasional panic does it leave you with some 
underlying anxiety for awhile and if so how do you handle it?


Bronwyn Fox:   No, I have no anxiety at all now because I always know now why 
they happen and this takes the fear away totally.  When we can really understand 
them we can diffuse them very quickly. 


Dearest:   Is it really possible not to have any anxiety? I can't imagine, 
although I'd like to find out, what life would be like without anxiety. 


Bronwyn Fox:   When I lost my fear of my panic attacks I then began to see 
through mindfulness how much of my anxiety was being created by me trying to be 
the good nice person, when I was not being true to myself so I did a great deal 
of work on this and my anxiety slowly dissolved. 


MaryO:   I have a similar question to one that Dearest asked earlier.  I get 
debilitating panic attacks when I have to make phone calls - so I can't call 
anyone for counseling to help.  How does your online counseling work? 


Bronwyn Fox:   In a number of ways. We do online support one to one in our 
private chat room and so people do not need to use the phone or voice chat and 
then we can assist them to get to the point where they can begin to use the 
telephone. 


Ronna:   I spend alot of time alone which adds greatly to my anxiety.  I have 
friends that work and are not around.  How do I find the support to attack 
fearful situations and get myself moving without the support of another person?


Bronwyn Fox:   I was in the same situation as you find yourself in and so I 
needed to learn to become my own support. Like most of us I did not trust myself 
with myself nor trust my disorder but like all of us I wanted recovery so badly 
learning to be my own support became part of my recovery. We are a lot stronger 
than we think we are.  In fact I always say we are too strong for our own good. 
We just don't recognise it. 


SisyQ2:   Hello every one, I really don't have a question, But I just would like 
to say a few words about PD. I had one of the worse cases of PD one could 
imagine. I was house bound for three years and I couldn't even take care of 
myself at all. I am now fully recovered from this disorder. I take no more panic 
attacks, and I can now go any where I want to. And I never took one pill to get 
better.  My panic disorder really got bad during Menopause. I just wanted every 
one to know.

My first steps towards recovery was knowledge on this disorder and then 
recognizing how my thinking effected my anxiety.  I just wanted to give those 
who think that they can never get better faith that you will and can get better. 
I did and if I can do it any one can, but its not an over night cure.


Dearest:   That's wonderful, Sisy. Thank you for sharing that with us all.  So 
glad you're better.


SisyQ2:   It takes a lot of practice and working on yourself.  Thank you!


Dearest:   Wonderful, Sisy.


Bronwyn Fox:   I agree  with you SisyQ2. The work is worth it!!


SisyQ2:   Thank You, Dearest.  You're very welcome.  I now help people with this 
disorder.


Sasse:   My family and friends make me feel like a mental case; they say that I 
could just "get over it " people are so afraid of what they don't understand; I 
feel different than others.


Bronwyn Fox:   It can be very difficult, Sasse, when people around us don't 
understand.  Usually with panic disorder if one member of the family has panic 
disorder there are usually other people in the family sometimes they may not 
have recovered and won't talk about our experience because they become effected. 
Is there anyone in your community that can give you the support you need?


Sasse:   MY daughter is very sick


Bronwyn Fox:    Could your doctor speak with your family? Are you able to give 
your family information about the disorders?


Sasse:   Yes, but they still refuse to get it.


Bronwyn Fox:   With Panic Disorder, Sasse.  Then you need to come to the 
understanding that their ignorance of the disorder does not mean you are a 
failure in any way. You need to learn to separate yourself mentally from their 
opinions otherwise it will keep your anxiety levels high.


Sasse:   Thanks; I do know that; it's hurtful though.


Bronwyn Fox:   It is, Sasse.


Sasse:   Thank you Bronwyn Fox


Dearest:   Thank you, Bronwyn. Very insightful. KELLY, go ahead, please.


Kelly:   Is there any way to stop a panic attack after it's started but before 
it gets out of control? 


Bronwyn Fox:   Yes there is, but it takes practice!  You need to learn to let go 
of the need to fight it. We all need to learn to simply let it happen and not 
buy into our anxious thoughts about it.  But this does take practice. 


Kelly:   Thanks :)  


Dearest:   The letting go of the need to fight it, isn't that similar to the 
pioneer, Dr. Claire Weeke's theory about "floating?"  


Bronwyn Fox:   Yes, it is. The way I learnt to let go was through meditation.  
In meditation we need to let go and let the meditation happen.  I then learnt 
how to do this when I was having an attack. 


Dearest:   I think when I finally understood what "floating" was and to go with 
the feelings instead of fighting them -- that's when I finally began to overcome 
my fear of the panic attacks. Dr. Weekes helped me tremendously. Do you utilize 
a great deal of her theories in your work? 


Bronwyn Fox:   Claire Weekes's books were my 'bible'ing recovery but it was 
through meditation that I learnt to work with my thoughts and learnt to let what 
ever happens happens. So everything I teach is based on mindfulness meditation 


Dearest:   Thank you, Bronwyn :)  JDCISLANDER, go ahead, please :)

JDCIslander:   Why is it that if one person in the family suffers from panic 
disorder, there may be more family members also having panic attacks? is it in 
the genes? 


Bronwyn Fox:   There is a genetic contribution to spontaneous panic attacks. 


Froggy4:   What can WE do to reduce the stigma of "mental illness" that everyone 
associates with ANY disorder?  Helping others past that preconceived notion 
would help more of us recover.  Many of us are currently or have in the past 
been active, contributing members to our communities.  And the stigma of "mental 
illness" brings visions of violence.


Bronwyn Fox:   I think firstly we need to learn to see and understand why we 
have nothing to be ashamed about in having an anxiety disorder and when we are 
ready we can speak about it with other people. You will find when you do, other 
people are also experiencing difficulties but are hiding it also.  The more we 
can talk about our own experience the more we open the door for others. This 
helps to break it down. In regards to the violence, in the past I have done some 
work with the schizophrenia fellowship here because most people with a mental 
illness are not violent and this message does need to get out into the 
community.


Dearest:   Bronwyn, would you say it's acceptable for someone who has severe 
panic disorder and anxiety to use medication to get her over the worst part 
while learning meditation, CBT and possibly going for psychotherapy?  Then, 
hopefully, she'll be able to get better control and get rid of the meds? 


Bronwyn Fox:   Yes there can be a place for medication in the short term as it 
can help people to learn the necessary cognitive skills, but if people are 
diagnosed immediately then there is so much they can do themselves to prevent 
the disorder escalating to the point where they need medication. 


Dearest:   Where can people E.mail you to get more information about your online 
programs?


Bronwyn Fox:   Our email address is aphub@bigpond.com.


Kellmom:   What is considered short term for medication?


Bronwyn Fox:   With tranquilisers here in Australia it is 2 - 4 weeks.  With 
anti depressants it could be for 6 - 12 months but during this time people can 
learn the necessary cognitive skills. 


SisyQ2:   I would just like to add one more thing to what I said, when I was 
suffering and at my worst with this disorder, I would always wish that I could 
go back to the person I was before this all hit me.  But, now that I'm better I 
came through all this, I would never want to go back to being that person.  I 
came out being a much strong and wiser person.  I know more now then I ever did.  
And it was all do to this disorder. I like who I am now more then before.  TY!


Bronwyn Fox:   That is exactly right, but we need to see that the person that we 
were did not know another way of being. We need to treat ourselves with 
compassion.  Recovery will show us just how strong we have always been. We just 
don't recognise it.


Dearest:   Bronwyn, was it aphub@bigpond.com?

What a great final note for our chat.  Bronwyn, thank you for an informative and 
stimulating chat about anxiety and panic disorder. We've all learned something 
tonight! Be sure to visit Bronwyn Fox's "The Panic Anxiety Hub" at 
http://www.panicattacks.com.au/ and I highly recommend her new book, 
"Power Over Panic: Freedom From Panic/Anxiety Related Disorders." 


Be sure to visit Bronwyn's Anxiety-Panic Disorder Archives. 

You can E.mail Bronwyn Fox at hub@panicattacks.com.au 


Dearest:   You were wonderful, Bronwyn. You'll have to come back on 
a regular basis. 


Bronwyn Fox:   Thank you very much Dearest for inviting me. I would like to!


Dearest:   I told you the anticipation is always greater than the realization :)


Bronwyn Fox:   That's true, Dearest!


Bronwyn Fox:   Thank you and have a good night, everyone.


Read Bronwyn Fox's second transcript
Read Bronwyn Fox's third transcript
Read Bronwyn Fox's fourth transcript


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Dearest
aka Alice Stamm
Power Surge
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